Insider Intel From the Swipe Fees Hearing

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NACS General Counsel Doug Kantor shares how the Credit Card Competition Act could move through Congress.
 

December 13, 2024

swipe-fee-hearing_rollup.jpgThe legislative process can be daunting, even for those who are well-versed in the inner workings of Congress.

You may remember this “Schoolhouse Rock” song, “I’m Just a Bill,” which explains in the most simplistic way how legislation makes its way through Congress to become law.

“I'm just a bill.
Yes, I'm only a bill,
And I got as far as Capitol Hill.
Well, now I'm stuck in committee.
And I'll sit here and wait
While a few key Congressmen discuss and debate.
Whether they should let me be a law.
How I hope and pray that they will,
But today I am still just a bill.”

One bill that convenience retailers would like to see move beyond being “stuck” in committee is the NACS-supported Credit Card Competition Act. The Senate Judiciary Committee held a hearing on November 19 to examine credit card swipe fees and the legislation that seeks to bring competition to the credit card market.

NACS General Counsel Doug Kantor testified on behalf of the c-store industry during the hearing. He had a front row seat—literally, as an invited witness—and talked about how hearings unfold in a recent Convenience Matters podcast, “Behind the Scenes of the Senate Swipe Fees Hearing.”

So why do committees hold hearings?

Raising the Profile of an Issue
“There are two flavors of congressional hearings,” said Kantor. “One is a legislative hearing, which is specifically meant to give a congressional committee a chance to evaluate a piece of legislation, learn more about it, think about whether they would like to pass it, etc.”

The second type of hearing is more general, like an “informational or investigatory hearing where Congress is looking to dive into a particular subject and learn more about it,” Kantor said.

The hearing on credit card fees straddles the line between the two because the Judiciary Committee was looking at a specific piece of legislation that is actually in the jurisdiction of the Banking Committee. “As a technical matter, this was the Judiciary Committee having an informational hearing and to learn more, so it had elements of both,” said Kantor.

For these two types of hearings, the objective is to raise the profile of an issue. “They get members of Congress more informed about it, and it's a way to prepare them for, ‘Hey, something might be happening on this topic, so here it is and get ready,’” he said.

The Process in Making a Point
In Congressional hearings, after each witness states their case for why a member of Congress should or should not support an issue or piece of legislation, the questioning begins.

Questioning the panel of witnesses typically starts with the committee chairman, who has five minutes to ask questions and get answers. This is followed by the ranking member, and then it alternates between majority and minority party members based on their arrival time to the hearing and seniority.

The questions can vary depending on the member's position relative to the witness's stance. As someone who has represented the convenience retail industry for over two decades on key industry issues at congressional hearings, Kantor emphasized being respectful and prepared, and to take each question as an opportunity to discuss key points—even when questions seem hostile.

He’s seen many witnesses “make the mistake of being too combative or taking a difficult or negative question and letting that create friction between them and the member of Congress,” he said. Subsequently they forget that they’re at the hearing to convince members of Congress “to be with you on your specific topic…you don't want to win the argument and lose the war.”

“Whether you get an easy question or a hostile question depends on which member is asking and what their position is vis-a-vis your own position,” said Kantor.

Another key point Kantor stated during last week’s podcast was the positive role NACS members have when hearings arise on topics like swipe fees, which impact every convenience retailer in our industry. 

“Members of Congress hearing from their constituents is the most important thing in a lobbying effort—bar none. Those of us who are professionals can go see them, give them information, and do lots of things to convince them. But there's nothing like them hearing from the people they know, care about or should know back home telling them how much something matters to them,” said Kantor.